7.
Keith Locke
(Green) to the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service: Does she have confidence in the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security; if so, why?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
(Acting Prime Minister): The Prime Minister stated that she has confidence in Mr Greig because he served for a long time on the High Court bench and has been a conscientious inspector-general. She is also on the record as saying it would have been better had he not given an interview in the middle of a case.
Keith Locke
: How can she have confidence in the inspector-general when he commented in the Listener: “We don’t want lots of people coming in on false passports thrown down the loo on the plane and saying” — [Interruption]
Mr Speaker
: The member will please be seated. Every member in this House has a perfect right to ask a question in silence. I do not care what the question is; that is part of this democracy. Mr Locke will be heard in silence.
Keith Locke
: How can she have confidence in the inspector-general when he commented in the Listener: “We don’t want lots of people coming in on false passports thrown down the loo on the plane and saying: ‘I’m a refugee, keep me here.’ “, when this comment shows a lack of understanding of the right of asylum seekers, under the United Nations Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees, to enter this country without legal passports because the regimes they are fleeing from commonly do not provide them with such passports?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
: Despite the point made by the member, as I said, the Prime Minister said it would have been better had the interview not been given, but in general terms I think the view of the Government — and, I expect, of most political parties — is that it would be better if people coming to this country do not throw their passports down the loo.
Keith Locke
: Is she aware that the Refugee Status Appeals Authority concluded that if Mr Zaoui were deported he would likely be tortured or murdered, and does she concede that the inspector-general’s inhumanity and prejudice towards asylum seekers are of deep concern to New Zealanders who uphold human rights and human dignity?
Hon Richard Prebble
: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to clarify a point. I know that the judge is no longer, I think, on the High Court, but I understand he still does High Court judgments. If that is so, then I draw to your attention that it is highly unconstitutional to speak disrespectfully of judges. The statement made by Mr Locke is an outrage. He has actually accused the judge of making statements that no reasonable person would make. All that the judge said was that we do not want large numbers of people arriving in New Zealand on false passports. From that, one cannot therefore say that he is inhumane and the other reference that the member made. I suggest to you that Speaker’s ruling 27/1 might apply to Justice Greig. If he is still doing court cases, he is still a High Court judge.
Mr Speaker
: I thank the member for his point of order, which is an interesting one. It is not a court of record. The member is entitled to ask the question, but he should take care, of course. The Minister may now answer.
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
: If there is any issue of bias, that is a matter for the judicial process to determine. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on that matter. But the member, I think, is not necessarily factually correct just to assume that any deportation of Mr Zaoui would return him to Algeria, and that, even in that case, certain consequences necessarily would follow.
Hon Peter Dunne
: Appreciating the confidentiality of any advice Mr Greig may give the Minister, is the Minister nevertheless in a position to give the House any assurance that, with regard to the Zaoui case, any matters upon which the inspector-general has reported relate specifically to that case and do not canvass the wider areas covered in the Listener article, for example?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
: I do not have any information in front of me that enables me to answer that question. I understand that the report from the inspector-general, when finally the legal process is over, to the point where that report can be concluded, will go to the Minister of Immigration, and she and she alone will be privy to the matters discussed in it.
Hon Ken Shirley
: Can the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service assure the House that the Government will not give consideration to Mr Locke’s plea to have Justice Greig dismissed, on the basis of impartiality, for the statement: “We don’t want lots of people coming in on false passports …”?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
: The test for dismissal of the inspector-general is pretty much the same as that for dismissal of a High Court judge. It is an extremely high test indeed, and there is no question, certainly in my mind, that Mr Greig is anywhere near reaching the level of that test.
Keith Locke
: In recognition of Mr Zaoui’s year of suffering in New Zealand prisons, which has been extended by the withholding of information by the inspector-general, will the Minister support Mr Zaoui being granted special Christmas leave?
Hon Dr Michael Cullen
: It is not a matter for the Minister in charge of the NZ Security Intelligence Service to promote anything in those respects, at all.